tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30023391.post160095370027544550..comments2023-10-28T04:20:28.978-06:00Comments on therealdeal Hockey: DS Errors Intriguing but Flawed IdeaUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30023391.post-66796018261704360652008-01-28T15:05:00.000-07:002008-01-28T15:05:00.000-07:00Who is the person deciding if it's an error or not...<I>Who is the person deciding if it's an error or not?</I><BR/><BR/>This is the real problem with the issue of counting "errors": they are a subjective value judgement. I tend to ignore or discount other stats of this kind - stuff like "hits" and "give-aways" suffer a similar fate in their collection in the NHL currently. <BR/><BR/>When it comes to stats, I think it's better to count discrete, identifiable events (goals, shots, time on ice) that are objectively measurable by some standard unit. <BR/><BR/>I have no problem with the concept of "errors" in the context of qualitative discussion of a player's performance during a game or after a game, but trying to make them into a legit counting number is fraught with peril.Kent W.https://www.blogger.com/profile/15679878875910837307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30023391.post-77628083099255200132008-01-28T11:33:00.000-07:002008-01-28T11:33:00.000-07:00Quite frankly I'm impressed with the work you've p...Quite frankly I'm impressed with the work you've put in already, and obviously my idea isn't really viable for the average person to keep track of. It's not like the average fan could keep track of hits, SOG without an professional counter so take what I say with a grain of salt.<BR/><BR/>I just think that if someone were going to take this idea to the next level, these would have to be the stipulations. Otherwise, like I say, it becomes misleading IMO.MacShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05825358966465275254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30023391.post-87135336975611823622008-01-28T10:02:00.000-07:002008-01-28T10:02:00.000-07:00Fair enough. I take your point. Like goals and ass...Fair enough. I take your point. Like goals and assists, this stat would be only part of the equation.<BR/><BR/>You know, to properly assign an error takes about 10 minutes. I have to watch the replay of a goal 15-20 times. So it would be difficult, I'd asset, to assign errors on other plays, such as on all good scoring chances in a game. Whereas you might have five or six even strength goals, you would have 15 or 20 good scoring chances. That would be a lot of work. Now, I'm not saying someone shouldn't do this -- I volunteer you for the job! :)<BR/><BR/>Right now, of course, the NHL does collect a stat for turnovers and takeaways, which kind of addresses miscues that happen during the flow of a game. But this is a poorly understood stat, and not loved by many folks, and it doesn't address scoring chances, but all miscues during a game, I believe.dstapleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04778771114265145395noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30023391.post-33075785943166407292008-01-28T07:44:00.000-07:002008-01-28T07:44:00.000-07:00I would say my criticism isn't that error doesn't ...I would say my criticism isn't that error doesn't properly single out other defensive miscues, its that it doesn't give an accurate representation of the number of miscues made.<BR/><BR/>Think about it in these terms: every time a goaltender makes a defensive miscue, it's going to end up in the back of the net (pretty much anyway). So his error number is going to be invariably inflated. Whereas a forward's 'error' is only going to end up in the back of the net maybe 1/7 times or so (guessing, but the point is a lot less), and a defenceman is going to land somewhere in between. So when you come up with a conclusion like 'Roloson is most error prone Oiler' it's true in terms of how you define error, but it's not that helpful in determining who's making mistakes.<BR/><BR/>And I would agree that goals and assists don't reward good offensive plays all the time, but that's a different flaw.<BR/><BR/>I understand you're trying to show where mistakes were made on goals, I just don't think it paints a clear picture and with a few little tweaks it could. Just like +/- is helped by desjardins' +/- on/off, I think the error would be better served counting scoring chances and penalties as well.<BR/><BR/>That's just my opinion though.MacShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05825358966465275254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30023391.post-2082654248864936832008-01-27T20:04:00.000-07:002008-01-27T20:04:00.000-07:00Thanks for writing about the error and thinking ab...Thanks for writing about the error and thinking about the subject. If this stat is going to be useful, it's going to take a lot of discussion and fine-tuning.<BR/><BR/>Your main criticism is that the error doesn't properly single out players who make other terrible defensive miscues. But let me give you this to chew on . .. <BR/><BR/>Say there were no goal and assist stat right now, and I was saying, 'Hey, why don't we give a plus point to a player who last touches the puck before it goes in the net, and we'll call it a "goal"? And why don't we give two more plus points to players who touched the puck second last and third last before it goes in the net, and we'll call those "assists"? <BR/>'This way we'll know who are the players most responsible for those great moments when the puck goes in the net.'<BR/><BR/>Would your counter argument be: Well, goals and assists are fine, but what about other great plays where the puck almost goes in the net. This goal and assist thing doesn't recognize those plays? Or how about the defender who breaks up a play, then passes it up, and the forwards pass it around, and the defender doesn't get an assist because he was the fourth last person to touch the puck. He made a great play, but gets no assist. Is that fair?"<BR/><BR/>It's true, the "error" is only one stat, and it's not the be-all, end-all. Look at it as the "anti-point." Just as goals and assists rewards those who make plays that lead directly to goals, the errors punishes those who make plays that lead directly to goals against.dstapleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04778771114265145395noreply@blogger.com